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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I got tied up with a few projects for the last while so I was itching to get back out there. Monday was fairly windy and the 3 foot waves made it a little challenging for jigging. It also rained on and off about 4 times during the day, nevertheless I managed to huddle down and grind it out. By 3:00, I had only caught 12 Wallies but 2 of them were bigger. Then I finally got over my laziness to move and pounded my way to a new spot and started getting them good. I ended the day with 77 Wallies with 4-27", 2-27.5", 4-28.5", and 1-29".

Tuesday was a lot nicer out and wind wasn't as bad, almost calm by afternoon. I moved around a few times and caught a few here and there. I spent much too much time in yesterday's glory hole and finally made a move for the last few hours. I started catching good shortly afterwards. I ended the day with 117 Wallies with 2-27", 3-27.5", 1-28", 1-29", and 1-30.75". I also dropped 2 fish half way up that I knew were big. All were caught on my usual bubblegum jig. Most were caught using short flips and snaps with long pauses on bottom. There were times when slow, high lifts with fast drops was working better and they were hitting it on the freefall. It never seems to amaze me how moody the fish can be and how often a sudden technique or cadence change and wham, the bite is back on again in a seeming less area void of fish. Another note that I will mention is that I think many experienced anglers get too focused on their electronics, looking for fish. I don't have Livescope or Active Target technology but I don't often put a whole lot of faith in marking fish on the screen. I have found that it is not uncommon at all for there to be lots of fish, even big ones, that are so tight to bottom, likely hiding behind rocks and structure, that they don't show up on the screen. Maybe I am doing something wrong but IMO, electronics do not do a good job of separating fish from bottom. This happens a lot for me! Here are some pictures:

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I got tied up with a few projects for the last while so I was itching to get back out there. Monday was fairly windy and the 3 foot waves made it a little challenging for jigging. It also rained on and off about 4 times during the day, nevertheless I managed to huddle down and grind it out. By 3:00, I had only caught 12 Wallies but 2 of them were bigger. Then I finally got over my laziness to move and pounded my way to a new spot and started getting them good. I ended the day with 77 Wallies with 4-27", 2-27.5", 4-28.5", and 1-29".

Tuesday was a lot nicer out and wind wasn't as bad, almost calm by afternoon. I moved around a few times and caught a few here and there. I spent much too much time in yesterday's glory hole and finally made a move for the last few hours. I started catching good shortly afterwards. I ended the day with 117 Wallies with 2-27", 3-27.5", 1-28", 1-29", and 1-30.75". I also dropped 2 fish half way up that I knew were big. All were caught on my usual bubblegum jig. Most were caught using short flips and snaps with long pauses on bottom. There were times when slow, high lifts with fast drops was working better and they were hitting it on the freefall. It never seems to amaze me how moody the fish can be and how often a sudden technique or cadence change and wham, the bite is back on again in a seeming less area void of fish. Another note that I will mention is that I think many experienced anglers get too focused on their electronics, looking for fish. I don't have Livescope or Active Target technology but I don't often put a whole lot of faith in marking fish on the screen. I have found that it is not uncommon at all for there to be lots of fish, even big ones, that are so tight to bottom, likely hiding behind rocks and structure, that they don't show up on the screen. Maybe I am doing something wrong but IMO, electronics do not do a good job of separating fish from bottom. This happens a lot for me! Here are some pictures:

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Great fishing report. Congratulations on the success. We fished Hecla June 22. We were surprised to see the south wind in the pm with a north current at the same time. When the current picked up so did the fishing. And thanks Lance for the bubblegum jig tip. A hot bait.
 

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I got tied up with a few projects for the last while so I was itching to get back out there. Monday was fairly windy and the 3 foot waves made it a little challenging for jigging. It also rained on and off about 4 times during the day, nevertheless I managed to huddle down and grind it out. By 3:00, I had only caught 12 Wallies but 2 of them were bigger. Then I finally got over my laziness to move and pounded my way to a new spot and started getting them good. I ended the day with 77 Wallies with 4-27", 2-27.5", 4-28.5", and 1-29".

Tuesday was a lot nicer out and wind wasn't as bad, almost calm by afternoon. I moved around a few times and caught a few here and there. I spent much too much time in yesterday's glory hole and finally made a move for the last few hours. I started catching good shortly afterwards. I ended the day with 117 Wallies with 2-27", 3-27.5", 1-28", 1-29", and 1-30.75". I also dropped 2 fish half way up that I knew were big. All were caught on my usual bubblegum jig. Most were caught using short flips and snaps with long pauses on bottom. There were times when slow, high lifts with fast drops was working better and they were hitting it on the freefall. It never seems to amaze me how moody the fish can be and how often a sudden technique or cadence change and wham, the bite is back on again in a seeming less area void of fish. Another note that I will mention is that I think many experienced anglers get too focused on their electronics, looking for fish. I don't have Livescope or Active Target technology but I don't often put a whole lot of faith in marking fish on the screen. I have found that it is not uncommon at all for there to be lots of fish, even big ones, that are so tight to bottom, likely hiding behind rocks and structure, that they don't show up on the screen. Maybe I am doing something wrong but IMO, electronics do not do a good job of separating fish from bottom. This happens a lot for me! Here are some pictures:

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Your right older electronics do not do a good job of separating fish from bottom, and it's because they really hug it. Due to cone angle and depth I can tell when they are in the area, there will be a thin colors change on the bottom of the lake. For me its a thin red layer or blob on top of a yellow bottom base.
Drum on the other had show up huge.
They would have to be suspended in order for me to pick them up while moving for sure, and that happens but its rare.
I can notice the bottom change, and know they are in the vicinity but that's about it for my finder.
The finder works best for me to locate structure and depth changes.
Love reading your reports, we sure enjoyed being out yesterday.
 

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Your right older electronics do not do a good job of separating fish from bottom, and it's because they really hug it. Due to cone angle and depth I can tell when they are in the area, there will be a thin colors change on the bottom of the lake. For me its a thin red layer or blob on top of a yellow bottom base.
Drum on the other had show up huge.
They would have to be suspended in order for me to pick them up while moving for sure, and that happens but its rare.
I can notice the bottom change, and know they are in the vicinity but that's about it for my finder.
The finder works best for me to locate structure and depth changes.
Love reading your reports, we sure enjoyed being out yesterday.
This year I upgraded from my Lowrance Elite CHIRP to a Garmin UHD. The Garmin is more sensitive as it should be as the technology is newer. Fish are still shown as differences in colour on the bottom when they are hugging bottom. The Garmin has side view but either I'm too new to it or it isn't sensitive enough for these old eyes or?
 

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It's not your eyes, but even with side view they are hard to pick up when they are hugging the bottom. Such a place like Hecla in a lot of areas that every one fishes there are a lot of rocks or small boulders. Walleye will swim between these and not come up. In some ways that is why I think I have success with a hook slightly higher up. Sometimes while jigging you are not lifting the jig high enough for the Walleye to see the bait because of the small boulders that they are swimming around, yet they see the hook because it's higher than the boulders. This bite you will notice your line half the time as you are jigging up the line goes slack since the Walleye are coming of the bottom. Bit hard to set the hook on this bite until you feel a bit of weight.


lty higher up.
 

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It was great seeing you out on the lake again L Irwin, thank you for sharing your insights which lead to my success out there, love watching your jigging technique...leads to more fish on the boat for sure. Like yourself I only have basic electronics, nothing like time on the water to lead to fish numbers. Look forward to seeing you out there again!

Wayne
 

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As someone who is new to live sonar, I don't think it's a complete gamechanger, at least it will take time to utilize it well. I feel like the strength lies within seeing and understanding structure ahead without having to drive over it which allows you to better understand how fish relate to the structure. Actually picking out individual fish looks cool and I have coaxed fish from a distance but in reality it's still not good to put complete faith in the technology. I still cast where I don't see fish because the beam is not as big as you think. You should still keep your basic instincts as an angler.

Definitely very useful to have and I think it's a good investment. It's not going to make you catch a lot of fish right out of the box.

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I am the first to admit that I don't use my electronics to their full advantage but I know the basics. I can easily tell the difference between baitfish, Drum, Perch and Walleye by the shape of the mark(s). I have never been a big fan of fine tuning settings and wasting valuable fishing time. I just set it to auto, watch it like a hawk, and get used to what I am seeing and interpret it to what I am catching. Using my HDS8, I too can see the color change on bottom that account for a few of the bottom hugging fish, but when they are doing this, most of them don't even show up for me at all. When I mark bigger fish just off bottom, this seems to be when they are most aggressive and easier to convince into biting. In conditions like these, I often catch myself talking to them to myself saying stuff like "come on, take the thing already!" I also see sometimes when they all come through suspended and are most likely on the move out or feeding and slashing their way through an area. These are times when higher lifts and other chasing and following jigging cadences and techniques seem to get their attention and work better for me. Even though I don't use my side imaging much for stationary jigging, only trolling, I also see the tell tale shadows that indicate fish, but again tight bottom huggers are still mostly invisible. I have heard the sight fishing stories from newer technology, live sonar users but have only seen it briefly in action so far. I can only imagine how it will fill in some more of the missing pieces but with limitations. I wonder if these tight bottom hugging fish show up any better with live sonar technology?
 

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I am the first to admit that I don't use my electronics to their full advantage but I know the basics. I can easily tell the difference between baitfish, Drum, Perch and Walleye by the shape of the mark(s). I have never been a big fan of fine tuning settings and wasting valuable fishing time. I just set it to auto, watch it like a hawk, and get used to what I am seeing and interpret it to what I am catching. Using my HDS8, I too can see the color change on bottom that account for a few of the bottom hugging fish, but when they are doing this, most of them don't even show up for me at all. When I mark bigger fish just off bottom, this seems to be when they are most aggressive and easier to convince into biting. In conditions like these, I often catch myself talking to them to myself saying stuff like "come on, take the thing already!" I also see sometimes when they all come through suspended and are most likely on the move out or feeding and slashing their way through an area. These are times when higher lifts and other chasing and following jigging cadences and techniques seem to get their attention and work better for me. Even though I don't use my side imaging much for stationary jigging, only trolling, I also see the tell tale shadows that indicate fish, but again tight bottom huggers are still mostly invisible. I have heard the sight fishing stories from newer technology, live sonar users but have only seen it briefly in action so far. I can only imagine how it will fill in some more of the missing pieces but with limitations. I wonder if these tight bottom hugging fish show up any better with live sonar technology?
The manufacturers of marine electronics must convince fishermen that their new products offer something that is better than an old product. Their business is based on continuing sales. I started with an Lowrance flasher. I still miss how quickly it would show differences in bottom structure. Some of the "new products" prove not to be such an advantage. Case in point the Color C-selector. Of course I had one. And used it until I was at a fishing seminar with two tournament fishermen. They related that they were fishing side by side. One said his unit was indicating orange as the best color, the other that his was suggesting purple. What I did learn from the Color C-selector was that different colors are more visible under different light conditions.
I had an underwater camera that I won in a catfish tournament. It was of limited use in stained water conditions such as the Red River. Another piece of equipment to fumble with instead of actually fishing. I donated it to a women's cancer tournament.
Live sonar? Does it not require another transducer either attached to a bow mount or a "stick" off the side?
 

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Today, went to Hecla for a few hours. It was mid-day (1 pm) by the time I was out on the water. Even so, I still managed to put 18 walleyes on the board including two MA (28" and 28.5") and two jumbo perch before 6 PM.

My live tech didn't do much but it did keep me entertained with the few that were coaxed off the bottom. Most were caught while hugging bottom and darting out to hit my jig.
 

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Live sonar? Does it not require another transducer either attached to a bow mount or a "stick" off the side?
Depends on where you mount it and the type of fishing you do. For example, if I'm not mistaken, Aaron Wiebe and Jay Seimens have it installed on the transom. Bass guys usually set it up on their trolling motors. Walleye and crappie guys usually put it on a separate mount so that it is independent from the trolling motor and so that you can switch 'modes' on the water.
 

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I tried the west side in a new area that I've never been to.

I used my live sonar while vertical jigging for the first time. Probably caught about 100 walleyes though most were not big.

I would say live sonar did not make me catch a lot more fish. Though it showed me things that I never thought about before.

You can catch more suspended fish compared to using 2D. Since the range is way wider you'll have an easier time getting up to them.

On a hot bite the bottom is usually crawling with walleyes. The thing is many do not bite even though it appears that you're hammering fish constantly. The fish were definitely aware of the jig and were reacting but not always eating. Sometimes there could be 2 fish looking at the bait and nothing ate. Had I been using 2D, it would have just been an almost continuous streak of red at the bottom and I wouldn't have really noticed how infrequent fish eat the bait. At the same time, when nothing is on the screen a fish would randomly slam the jig from the side of the sonar and I wouldn't be able to notice it on the screen.

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What make of sonar are you running?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I tried the west side in a new area that I've never been to.

I used my live sonar while vertical jigging for the first time. Probably caught about 100 walleyes though most were not big.

I would say live sonar did not make me catch a lot more fish. Though it showed me things that I never thought about before.

You can catch more suspended fish compared to using 2D. Since the range is way wider you'll have an easier time getting up to them.

On a hot bite the bottom is usually crawling with walleyes. The thing is many do not bite even though it appears that you're hammering fish constantly. The fish were definitely aware of the jig and were reacting but not always eating. Sometimes there could be 2 fish looking at the bait and nothing ate. Had I been using 2D, it would have just been an almost continuous streak of red at the bottom and I wouldn't have really noticed how infrequent fish eat the bait. At the same time, when nothing is on the screen a fish would randomly slam the jig from the side of the sonar and I wouldn't be able to notice it on the screen.

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Thanks CN for this information! It is very interesting hearing about fishing with live sonar. Your observations seem to confirm a lot of my suspicions and theories with even give me some new ones to think about. People think that during a hot bite, every fish that swims by will hammer anything put in front of it. IMO, nothing could be further from the truth. There is a really good jaw jacker video that shows how Walleye bite. They slowly chase and gain on their prey. When they catch up, they slurp in the water and bait and chomp their mouth shut around it. They will spit it, literally in the blink of an eye, if they feel any weight or don't like it. I firmly believe that this process happens more often than you would think and can be so supple, that it can often go undetected, especially to the less experienced. Also pods of aggressive fish will often come through suspended and slash and hack their way through a school of Shiners, and then turn around and come slurp the pieces off the bottom. I also believe that Walleye, with their superior low light vision can see and feel your offering from long distances, over 10+ feet and maybe even more, but they can also be extremely moody when they want to be. Although it does sound promising and pretty cool to watch, I don't think that I am ready yet to pull the pin on live sonar.
 

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Lance, back in the day I knew a couple older clinicians who didn't believe that sonar (ultrasound) would make a difference for them. They've done so many procedures that their hands can detect the slightest changes while introducing a catheter. While that may be true, it took them years (maybe decades) and working tens of thousands of cases to get that level of sensitivity. For new doctors it was shown that they could perform close to these 'gurus' by using ultrasound to guide them. It was a game changer.

I believe the same can be said for live technology. One person, like yourself, may not really see a benefit from it as you're already at the top of your game. Some less experienced individuals like myself have upped their game 100 times after using real-time sonar. Personally, I went from one MA in a span for several years to several per season (and sometimes several per trip). Same body of water, different results. I truly believe that in most days on the water, live tech is where it's at for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Lance, back in the day I knew a couple older clinicians who didn't believe that sonar (ultrasound) would make a difference for them. They've done so many procedures that their hands can detect the slightest changes while introducing a catheter. While that may be true, it took them years (maybe decades) and working tens of thousands of cases to get that level of sensitivity. For new doctors it was shown that they could perform close to these 'gurus' by using ultrasound to guide them. It was a game changer.

I believe the same can be said for live technology. One person, like yourself, may not really see a benefit from it as you're already at the top of your game. Some less experienced individuals like myself have upped their game 100 times after using real-time sonar. Personally, I went from one MA in a span for several years to several per season (and sometimes several per trip). Same body of water, different results. I truly believe that in most days on the water, live tech is where it's at for me.
Thanks. I saw Livescope in action this hardwater season. It did show the direction that the fish were coming from and I am confident that there is lots that everyone can learn from it, myself included. There is no question that it would be a definite advantage, likely more so in certain situations and styles of fishing. I also heard several stories of sharpshooting and picking off individual fish from a distance. A couple of negatives I noticed is that it seems to be a bit of a power hog and of course, the price for the unit and a new display. My biggest fear is that one could easily become their own worst enemy and use it to constantly pan and scan, quickly becoming a distraction that takes away valuable fishing time. It would probably help if it could be controlled by voice or preset patterns. Someone will probably come out with this next? Bottom line, I really don't have that much faith in any electronics to overcome my own prejudices and the price.
 
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